Pricing A New Car, Part 3

When I was a teenager, Dad did a lot of car work on the family cars.  He also bought a few.  He never let me help on repairs or go along when he bought a new one.  I received an old car he purchased as a birthday gift when I was 20.   I drove it to college and had no idea how to maintain a car.  After a couple years. it died.  The mechanic showed me that the oil was like tar. 

Well who knew you had to change that?  Dad never mentioned it.  So I walked miles and rode buses for year because I was DEAD BROKE and living on Hamburger Helper.

I didn't ASK for help, but Dad took SOME pity on me and bought another old car.  It lasted 3 years.  My BIL replaced the engine from another old car but that lasted only 6 months.  After that, I never mentioned problems.

Not knowing anything about negotiating car prices, I paid sticker price for a used Chevy Vega Hatchback.  The car has a terrible history, but I actually got a good one.  After it died, I asked a friend to drive me around to several local dealerships to find a new one.  I didn't want a used car.

Now, my friend was an experienced negotiator.  Did contract negotiations.  Had bought several cars (and explained later that he had worked the price down).  We finally landed at a Chevy dealer and I asked to see the cheapest car on the lot.  I said "OK" to a Chevy Scooter at full price.  I didn't know you could negotiate.  My experienced friend did not so much as whisper a suggestion in my ear. 

And a knowledgeable friend would do that, right?  He didn't.  He just let me go on being a real sucker. I only understood what a sucker I was later.  HE said "Well, it was up to you".  Some friend... I think it made him feel "superior".  Well, we had some other things in common like fishing and games.  But I finally dropped him like rock in 2011 and am greatly relieved for having done so.

The next time I needed a car, I researched.  I found Consumer Reports car pricing site.  Loved it.  But that is all detailed in the previous 2 posts.

I've learned to negotiate and rather strongly.  I've learned that "best offers" are never the best.  I will survive without the CR pricing data.  I've learned to never offer the fair price, because salesmen just consider that a starting point to increase.  I probably won't get as good a price as I used to, but probably will pay well less than average. 

You do what you can with the information you have...

Pricing a New Car, Part 2

So, I have discovered Consumer Reports (CR) magazine no longer provides detailed dealer costs for new cars since 2015.  My Toyota Highlander is 15 years old (with only 30K miles) but is dying from general age fatigue.  There are car parts that just decay from age.  I could keep it going for another year for $3,000 (new timing belt, other belts, replace worn tires [age not tread], and general maintenance).  The charging system is failing, so I have to keep the car on a "battery- minder" (smarter version of a trickle-charger).

I could generally live with a small electric car.  I haven't left the County for 3 years.  I don't drive much.  But there are those days when I need a trailerload of compost or need to haul stuff to the County landfill.  So I need an SUV.  I suppose I could rent an SUV for special purposes, or arrange for compost to be delivered. 

It is all a bit uncertain.  But I decided on a small SUV.  The top 2 two-seat versions at CR are Subaru Forester and Mazda CX-5.  The Mazda has slight advantages (better interior, more reliable, and better driver seat),  The Subaru excels in things I care less about.

So, I went to the CR car pricing page on their website.  They sent my to TrueCar for "pricing" and all I got from that was offers from dealers.  OK,  I had chosen a specific model, color and AWD, no options (I actually didn't want any of the options). 

I responded to each of the dealers with the details of the car (taken directly from the Mazda website) and offerred a total price, delivered.  Eternal Blue (because they don't offer a dark green as I would prefer) , 2020 Mazda CX-5 AWD drive, Sport version (least fancy) no options.  And asked if they would accept $23,000 total all fees and taxes, delivered, certified bank check on delivery. 

Half ignored my question and sent upgraded car offers.  Several made offers above the MSRP and would not specify the additional fees and taxes, though they surely know them.

So I responded to all requesting more information and reminding them that I had made a specific offer on a specific vehicle in detail.  1 did.  Offerred MRSP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price in case the acronym is unfamiliar - which is always a joke) and said he couldn't go lower.  Idiots!  I'm 70 years old; I know better.  I know car sales are WAY down.  At this guy wants full price?  I suggested he reconsider.  He wouldn't.  I sent him a joke insulting car salesmen.  He deserved it...

I checked on another site that listed all their cars.  Apparently, the CX-5 Sport is not one they want to sell.  But one of those "chat now" boxes opened.  Considering I hadn't been able to get any reply from that place to my emails, I clicked.

We chatted.  I repeated the details from the previous emails.  Her initial offer was MSRP.  I sent her a ROTFL icon and suggested she get real.  She promised to get "her team" looking at my offer.  I bet they never reply.

So I have 2 places I'm waiting for a reply from.  They all want $28,000 and change.  I'm offerring $23,000 o let them know they have to get seriously lower.  If it gets down to $25,000, I will probably accept after something like "throw in a trailer hitch and floormats" and they will say no to the trailer hitch ($450) but OK of the floor mats and we will have a deal.  I've already checked with the local trailer store and they will add one for $250.

And if none of them go for my offers, I've not contacted the Mazda dealership in town.  Yeah, I'm saving them for last.  If I can't get the car for the price I want, I may take it.  I could buy a Lexus if I wanted to.  I just don't drive much, and impressing the neighbors is not my thing.  I just refuse to get ripped off by some slick salesman. 

And if I buy the Mazda at the local dealership for the same price the ones further away want, they don't get to gloat AND I have the Good Will of the local dealership.  When I bought the Toyota locally, the dealership added prefferred repair scheduling (a real thing by experience), shuttle service to and from home, and they were true to that.

But back to the car pricing.  Apparently, no matter how desperate salesmen are for their commissions AND having few sales these days according to news reports, they don't willing to accept less than $1,000 profit these days.  Maybe it is company rules...

I'll do the best I can.  Quite frankly, a difference of $2-3,000 doesn't really matter much on a car I expect to drive for 15 years.

I just don't ever want to be ripped off again.  That's Part 3 tomorrow...

Pricing a New Car, Part 1

I have depended on Consumer Reports magazine for fair and honest evaluations on various products from cars to cookware all my adult life.  I am a member.  I subscribe to the magazine.  I have sent money.

I loved and depended on their car reports ratings and actual dealer pricing.  I loved their detailed report on every possible option package on a car and the cost.  They gave information to ME that only the salesmen knew.

I ONLY buy vehicles that CR rated at the top...

The first time I went to buy a new Ford Taurus station wagon in 1986, they gave me information about the detailed different option packages, the actual cost to the dealer, and the things you didn't need from the dealer at extra cost.

The salesmen screamed like he was being robbed.  He said the data was false.  He complained there were other costs.  But I held the CR data in my hand and I eventually got the car for $500 above their actual cost and considering sales incentives.  They had to order my particular version from the factory, but it didn't sit on their lot costing them anything.

In 1998,I was in a carpool, and one member had this real cool Dodge Intrepid.  I researched it at CR and discovered its fancier upgrade (an Eagle Vision) actually had a much better deal with standard options than the Intrepid with added options and was a better car.  CR pricing came to the rescue again.  It was a model that didn't have a large production, so I ended up paying $700 above cost (and had to wait 6 weeks, too).  Sadly, it was not a very reliable car.

In 2005, I got the same data from CR about a Toyota Highlander.  I had them nailed to the last option package (and ones they claimed were required but were not).  I got out $500 above their actual cost including incentives.


15 years later, it is time to replace the car.  But CR doesn't provide that information anymore.  Apparently, CR was taken over by "less consumer oriented managers" around 2015.

Last week, I sought the same past information about 2 cars than seemed suited to my current needs.  The CR website offerred some information on the cars and then offerred "pricing information", which was what I wanted.

All they actually oferred (via TrueCar) was an "average sales price".  And within 5 minutes, I received offers from 5 dealerships.  All telling me they had the car I wanted.  At full price with a tiny fake discount.

CR has a deal to just send you to local dealerships!  I find that disgusting and a breaking of the Consumer Reports habit of decades.  I am both depressed at the loss of a trusted site and a betrayal of my trust in CR.

In reply to a query, CR said they ended their detailed car pricing program in April 2015.

Their decision to end the detailed car pricing information is not unimportant.  It means that, finally, after all the decades, they are willing to sell out.  They have left us at the "tender mercies" of the car salespeople. 

It is the end of an era...  They have just become another redirect-site to car dealerships...

I'm looking for a new car...    More tomorrow.